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DrGonzoEsquire

PappaCSkillz

Favre! STAY RETIRED PLEASE!

DrGonzoEsquire 38 votes	DrGonzoEsquire said the following @ 07/20/2009, 10:50am Are you kidding me? The more I hear about Favre's potential return, the more I have to try to NOT throw up. I'm sick to my stomach hearing about Childress and the Vikings' brass going on and on about Favre..."oh, he's got his own timetable" or "oh, he's still got NFL ability". NO HE DOESN'T. STOP FROM EMBARRASSING YOURSELF. And don't even think that by playing us (the Packers) in Week 4 will make any bit of difference. Rodgers is looking great, the offensive line is back from injuries, and more importantly THE PACK IS THE BETTER TEAM!! So please - Brett - just stay in sunny Mississippi and enjoy retirement. You certainly deserve it. We'll never forget what you did for our franchise, but certainly don't tarnish your reputation by going against your old team. Thank you.	PappaCSkillz 46 votes
	PappaCSkillz said the following @ 07/21/2009, 6:42am First things first, it is certainly a shame that the US Sporting media has chosen to absolutely carpet bomb this story to death, however, how is this Favre's fault? The man just wants to play football, you could argue that he was quite literally put on this earth to do just that, so if he is still functional, still serviceable, why should he retire? Favre can't control the increasinly lazy sporting medias lazy reporting habits, it is in no way his fault. Finally, to say he doesn't have NFL starting ability is just negative and bitter, on top of being erroneous. There are quite literally a dozen NFL teams that would start Favre right now. Don't kid yourself by saying Favre can't do it, the evidence last season alone shows he can. Your problem, your arguement, should be with the lazy US sporting media, not the QB.
	DrGonzoEsquire said the following @ 07/21/2009, 10:27am But my issue IS with the QB! Listen, I love Favre just as much as the next guy - or other Packers fans. But watching Favre go play football is akin to the old Shaolin monk getting his ass beat again and again by the same rival faction. Eventually, the monk will die - if not by his injuries, his lack of respect within the monastery will make him crumble. Enter Brett Favre into this conversation and you see a guy who is fantastic to watch but can he still pull the ten man sled (a.k.a. offense)down the field? No! He's thrown just as many interceptions as touchdowns, and his arm strength has diminished. Case in point: 2007 vs. the Bears at Soldier's Field. Brett sends my man Greg "the Bunny" Jennings down the field on a go route. Greg beats the defender easily as one vicious cut fake has the defender out of his shoes. But what does Brett do? Floats the ball up and Greg actually has to slow down, wait for it...and catches it for the winning score in OT. Yes, the play yielded the desired result but in a similar situation last year in NY, Favre sends Stuckey (or was it Cotchery? I forgot) on a go route and the separation that the WR made was gone by the time the ball got there and the result was an INT. What I'm trying to say here is that Favre's arm strength is no longer there. The balls he used to fire into Freeman and Rison and Lofton and SOUTH DEERFIELD'S OWN MARK CHMURA don't have the same zip today. Prediction: Favre will have more INTs than he will TDs. What role will he take on the Vikings if he does play? Will he groom any particular quarterback to be the man down the road? I don't think so. Fail.
	PappaCSkillz said the following @ 07/21/2009, 10:38am What in blazes? ''But watching Favre go play football is akin to the old Shaolin monk getting his ass beat again and again by the same rival faction.'' How is that, if he finished 2008 with a winning 9-7 record and narrowly missed out on the playoffs? I don't get the similie. ''but can he still pull the ten man sled (a.k.a. offense)down the field? '' Eh, an emphatic YES to that one - his team SCORED THE THIRD MOST POINTS IN THE ENTIRE AFC IN 2009 - behind only NE and SD, so yes, he can execute that exact metaphor!! Your arguements hold zero statistical quality or merit. Favre proved himself in 08, in a very tough division, to still be a top notch NFL QB, not elite any more, but ultimately both serviceable and successfull. To answer your inflamatory comment below, no, I would not take Favre in the top 5, or from a list of top 5 QBs, no, however that's not the question, you are suggesting he should retire because you are sick of hearing about him. I suggest that is unfair and Favre should have no problem continuing playing. You are moving the goal posts. Stick to the original debate.
	DrGonzoEsquire said the following @ 07/21/2009, 12:13pm Folks: If you were to learn anything at all today, it's not to wake and bake. Clearly, I've been moved by subastrological forces. With apologies to the Shaolin - I wish to let this guy know that Favre is DONE. At 39 years OLD, there is no suggestion whatsoever that he can still produce. He needs to relearn a new offense, not just hand the ball to AP and watch him run over people. Fact: My main man Bubba Franks translated all of the offensive terms in Mangini's system to that of McCarthy's - what we use in GB. Without that help, which he won't have in Minnesota, his effectiveness will certainly not be there. So instead of looking at the past, which our counterpart is doing, let's look at the future. Vikings O line: How many sacks did they give up last year? Seventh WORST with 43. Is Brett mobile? In the pocket, yes. Outside the pocket, don't even think about it. PS: Though the Jets were Ninth in the NFL in scoring with 405 points, there were only 22 TDs scored through the air! That's only a 32.6% contribution to the teams total points! But the stat that will continue to haunt you is the RATING. Brett's 81.0 rating is good for 21st in the league! David Garrard, Jay Cutler, hell even Seneca Wallace had a better rating than Favre! (FYI: my guy Aaron Rodgers had a 93.8 rating, good for sixth in the league) NOW - to the ballbuster point of the day - Favre actually had a chance to beat Miami in the last game of the season to get into the playoffs. Did they? Nope. Will he do it while playing for Minnesota? Nope. Bottom line: Favre is DONE. Thanks for playing.
	PappaCSkillz said the following @ 07/21/2009, 1:47pm Seriously, you make these grand, sweeping statements without any basis whatsoever. Let's start with; ''At 39 years OLD, there is no suggestion whatsoever that he can still produce. '' Yes, there is actually. Forget, if you want, the Hallf of Fame career, and focus on his most recent output. A not-too-shabby 9-7 record, 3.5 K yards passing, 22 TDs and the leader of the team that scored the third MOST points in the AFC. They don't look like the statistics of someone who should run out right now and retire. How about; ''He needs to relearn a new offense'' My learned friend appears to have forgotten Favre did just that in '08 with the Jets. The guy has been around a while, one suspects learning a new system would not be too tricky. Interesting that when once you simply roared 'Favre has to retire! Now!' you are now attacking stuff like mobility etc. I would imagine if someone 'needs' to retire, it would be blatantly obvious. The very fact that you are involved in a debate about the merits of his game shows, he still has some. Look, you started a discussion that Favre should retire because basically you were bored with the media's coverage of his potential comeback. You are now arguing whether the guy can run around like the Vick of old outside the pocket. I think its pretty clear to anyone who watched the NFL week in and week out that there is still a place for Favre in the game. I would also argue that it's actually fun watching him play, and I hate the Jets. Still got a kick out of watching the guy sling the ball around. You have done nothing at all to show Favre 'should retire right now'. That's because you can't. The guy can still do it, as shown my 2008.
	DrGonzoEsquire said the following @ 07/21/2009, 2:23pm Au contrare - what it seems like here is a discussion that you are using previous stats instead of looking ahead to the situation he'd fall into in Minnesota. Let's begin. 1) Sacks allowed. With Favre on his back he will not have a chance to throw for 2500 yards, not the 3500 he put up last year. 2) Offensive Cogs. Minnesota is built to run the ball. They have been for a while, ever since the 15-1 days back in 1998. When they signed Steve Hutchinson, they basically declared their love and passion to run the ball. They're one of the top rushing teams. In fact, didn't AP set a rushing record in one game? Oh, that was 2007. Sorry. But still - who lead the league in rushing last year? AP. 3) Defemse. Minnesota led the league in rushing yards against but pass defense was a little poor. How poor? Allowing opponents to complete over 60% of their passes for 3449 yards? Yes, I'm guessing that the defense will do that again. Sad, sad. 4) Coach. Brad Childress is WEAK. I'm not even going to say how weak, but let's just say that he's a bottom of the barrel coach and if he was on NE's staff, Kraft would fire him. Oh, but wait...it wouldn't even get to that point because Kraft wouldn't even hire him to wipe his @ss much less run his team. 5) Turf/Dome stadiums. Given Favre's record on Turf and in Domed stadiums, Favre's record is very poor. Do you want to play a minimum of 9 games (8 at HHH, one in Detroit's Ford Field) inside? The turf will tear at his knees like piranhas at a cow. I've given you five good reasons why he should retire now. But to one up myself... 6) Favre's 3472 yards was his lowest since 2003. He was sacked 30 times, double that of a year ago (although the Big Boys in Green Bay wouldn't let him hit the ground). His Sack yards was 213, his highest since 2000. INTs (22) his highest since 2005. Production is going down. Point out to me one stat where it's going up. Please. Your turn.
	PappaCSkillz said the following @ 07/21/2009, 2:28pm 1) Sacks allowed. Everyone knows Minny have a superb offensive line, so, total non starter of a point. With AP behind him, and the big guys in front of him, Favre should actually prosper. 2) Offensive Cogs. Minnesota is built to run the ball. - This is because they have not had a QB of Favre's stature. With Favre on board they would be more balanced and more dangerous. Wait, I actually did a double take when I saw the last few points, you aren't even discussing Favre any more!! You have completely abandoned your initial arguement at this stage. You are going to argue that Favre should reture because you think Minny's D isn't great? What the hell does that have to do with your initial arguement? You are flying off on tangents without producing anything that can actually back up your initial wild statement that Favre should retire.
	DrGonzoEsquire said the following @ 07/22/2009, 10:03am Are you serious? I've listed FIVE GOOD reasons why he should retire. There is nothing wild or fanatical about it. I originally stated that the reason why Favre should hang it up is because of his poor play, but expanded the argument to include coach and team. Given those items, Favre should hang it up. Folks, with all of the points I've made, reconsider your thoughts and put two and two together. Favre should retire. Period. PS: Say no to drugs. Pappa said it best.
	PappaCSkillz said the following @ 07/22/2009, 11:17am The fanatical, desperate edge to your demand that Favre should retire is kind of sad and lonely. You have provided no evidence, no hard numbers or evidence, to suggest Favre should retire other than your repeated insistence, and that alone should not suffice. Itâ€™s not up to you, nor I, nor anyone else but Favre and the teams interested in emplying him. Those teams are not stupid, they wonâ€™t put him on the field unless they think he can contribute. Everything else is just noise. If you allow the noise to get to you, and become tired of the story, thatâ€™s your problem.

PappaCSkillz wins the slugfest!

Comments

Juggernaut	posted @ 07/21/2009, 9:37am Favre is brutal to watch. Overrated QB. Just want him to quietly go away with some dignity. He's just as much at fault as the media.
PappaCSkillz	posted @ 07/21/2009, 9:45am How does 9-7 in the tough AFC East, and the third most points in the AFC combined amount to brutal? People are being totally narrow minded about this. He is still top ten QB quality. Way ahead of many other QBs.
DrGonzoEsquire	posted @ 07/21/2009, 10:31am Here's the skinny: If you're in a fantasy football draft, would you take Favre over ... (excluding Peyton, Brady, and other top five QBs) Phillip Rivers? WOULD YOU TAKE HIM OVER MATT Hasselbeck? OOOOOO...someone tell me that they would take Favre over Hasselbeck. Right now, I'd pick Matt CASSEL over Favre let alone Hasselbeck. I'd even consider picking up Jeff Garcia before Favre. Period.
Wranglers	posted @ 07/21/2009, 11:16am We want Favre to stop playing in the NFL. We need him to become our fulltime AD guy, as we believe that he rocks our jeans better than anyone else.
GB77	posted @ 07/21/2009, 1:51pm Of course Favre still has a place in the NFL, it's supposedly about entertainment, and he is very entertaining!
SoxFan1388	posted @ 07/21/2009, 2:37pm Actually Dr.Gonzo....I think your AP point kinda hurt you. That will help out Favre more than hurt. He has a couple good WR there now, and last I heard Marvin Harrison has a chance to sign there. Will he be pro bowl material? Probably not. Is he one of the best in that division, quite possibly.
	posted @ 07/21/2009, 3:17pm dr gonzo your argument was based more on your dislike of Favre then the facts. Didn't the Vikings win the NFC North despite having one of the worst qbs in the NFL last year? Yes I think they did, and they will win it again.
soxfanindesert	posted @ 07/21/2009, 5:50pm Gonzo, you need to hone your debating skills... You totally went off track with your original point, and that alone puts you in the minority.. You can't bring in a totally separate argument because you don't have the facts to support your original argument...
LCP	posted @ 07/22/2009, 12:25am This is all too funny. Favre is coming off surgery and he doesn't even know if he can play so how can anyone suggest he can. Surprisingly, I don't think anyone mentioned this. We'll know soon enough if he actually makes a decision this week as he said or will there be another deadline thereafter (and the circus continues)? Until there's a decision he should just stay put. Favre has "fueled" the media circus the past few years with his comments, on again off again retirement with tears and this year's storyline of playing within the Packers division. I feel he wants to play for revenge. Before his health problems he declined to out of top 10 QB quality. So he's definitely not top 10 now. If his health permits, can he still play? Sure, he's probably better than most backups and some starters. I think Favre should just stay retired and have happy memories before he slips into oblivion.
PappaCSkillz	posted @ 07/22/2009, 3:52am LCP you summed the entire arguement up right here; ''can he still play? Sure, he's probably better than most backups and some starters'' So just let the guy play!!
Brendan Smith	posted @ 07/22/2009, 7:59am Before week 8 with the Jets he was stellar, he played within the system, they ran first threw second. Two things happened in week 9. First, His body started to fade because at that age, with the collective beating he's taken, he just can't get through the NFL season anymore. Second, those first 8 games made his head balloon to proportions that were epic even by Favre standards. He stopped playing within the system, he chucked the ball all over the field and his TD/INT ratio inverted from the previous 8 games. Favre was great in his time but that times has passed. Let it go. Oh, and please don't tell me playing in a Dome will be better for him to weather the season. Astroturf has NEVER prolonged the career of anyone but a kicker. You know, the one guy on the field who doesn't get tackled into the cement....err....carpet.
SoxFan1388	posted @ 07/22/2009, 10:51am Jets threw the ball at almost a 60% clip. They were a throwing team not a running team.
LCP	posted @ 07/22/2009, 11:10am There is playing which anyone can do and then there is playing effectively. Here are a few 2008 stats some of which have been already stated and their rank: Interceptions (dead last at 32-still making poor decisions) QB rating (21st), TD (9th),Yrds(11th),Pass Pct. complete(5th) not bad but a lot of dink passes as indicated by yards per attempt (ranked 22 with 6.65 average) His skills have diminished, he would have to learn another new system and the players, his will is not totally there, he would be doing it for the wrong reasons(revenge) and the Minnesota players are not quite on board with him playing. It's better that he goes out now on top before he really gets hurt and/or his ego gets bruised. He's had a great career improvising most of the time which is just too difficult now.
Minny Fan 82	posted @ 07/22/2009, 11:43am ''and the Minnesota players are not quite on board with him playing'' what a load of horse sh1t - the Minny players are psyched, they would have a HOF QB as opposed to a guy who shouldn't be a backup to Rex Grossman.
PsychePsyche<>Major	posted @ 07/22/2009, 11:45am Gonzo its so eazy to take shots at peeps from your fat a$$! Favre is a hallf of fame level superstar, let him play as long as he wants
PappaCSkillz	posted @ 07/22/2009, 11:47am I really think the key element here is, it really doesn't matter what you say, or what I say, it is up to the NFL teams (Minny basically) to do their due dilligence and scout Favre and decide if he is an upgrade over Jackson, basically. If so, they will use him, if not, he will probably retire. It's up to Minny and Favre, and the rest of us will just have to wait and see how it pans out.
SoxFan1388	posted @ 07/22/2009, 1:41pm LCP, a lot of the reports I have heard and read on ESPN and such have all said that Minny players would LOVE to have him there. Now, I think what they don't like is this waiting game he plays. I agree he should announce one way or the other, but that is in no way the slugfest here. Favre still has very effective years left in him. So I guess the key word there is effective. When I think effective I think of can he run the team as it needs to be run. Especially since its a run first team, Favre will be less of a factor than he was with say the Jets. Still a huge contributor, but he will get 20-25 throws a game rather than the 30-35 he was getting in GB and NY. Adrian Peterson still is, and will be the team there. Also, will someone tell me why they don't think Favre can play better than Travaris Jackson?
LCP	posted @ 07/22/2009, 2:33pm Thanks for the info SF1388. I based my info on some interviews that I saw. Obviously there were others. For the most part I wouldn't expect the Minn. players to say anything detrimental in case they got Favre, would you MinnyFan? We all know for a fact though that not many Jets players had great things to say about Favre. Minnesota is just missing one piece to be in the SuperBowl which is the QB. I would like to see if Favre makes that difference. If not, I rest my case. And what is it that people's comments on these slugfests have to be repeated? I've noticed that trend lately. And as far as HOF QB, a similar discussion was had on the slugfest about trading Smoltz. HOF credentials are great but once you're dealing with an injury it's a big IF going forward and you can toss the history out because it's just that. I don't dislike Favre and I dislike Tavaris Jackson but Minn. picked up Sage Rosenfels which I thought was decent.
SoxFan1388	posted @ 07/22/2009, 4:31pm LCP, tough to tell what they are thinking, but again, I do think its more this waiting game he likes to play, and that gets infuriating and tiresome quickly. If the slugfest was is Farve annoying now...I would be behind that 100%. As for Dr.Gonzo, all he needs to beat is Jackson, and I think he does it easy. To think he can no longer play in the NFL, I just don't know. And I know the shoulder injury, but by every account on ESPN, its not a major career ending injury, it just takes effort to come back from it.
LCP	posted @ 07/22/2009, 5:27pm We'll know soon enough if Favre can play. These are Favre's words not mine. He has said repeatedly he doesn't know if he can play. If he says yes, great, if he says no then that means he can't play anymore and let's turn the page.
PappaCSkillz	posted @ 07/23/2009, 3:00am ''Also, will someone tell me why they don't think Favre can play better than Travaris Jackson?'' Word!
LCP	posted @ 07/23/2009, 10:21am Many are focused on T Jackson as the QB if Favre decides to not play. However, as I previously mentioned, without Favre, I believe the starter will be Sage Rosenfels who was acquired in the off season. He's not a superstar but I think he can get the team to the SB. I don't think E. Manning is awesome either but he won a championship.

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