finally? he has been hitting .291 since July 1 and has 10 Hr's and 26 RBI's in that time frame, im pretty sure he has been out of it for a while now, and has raised his batting avg 39 points in that span as well, papi is back, his final numbers may not look good come the end of the year but minus April and May he is on a roll and should carry for the rest of the yeear, he is the least of my concerns, i really have no concerns with this team in general due to the depth every where on the roster and the minors

Thank god for eye drops, amirite? I think a .244 BA is a bit generous myself. I'd have to assume he'll still hit upper .220's, low .230's. His HRs are coming in bunches, which certainly raises questions.

I do think he'll log around 25 HRs and 80 RBI if he stays in the 5/6 hole. I think if he moves up to 3 or 4 again, he may start struggling again, though not nearly as poorly.

If he maintains a .250 BA, 5 HR, 15-20 RBI a month from now till the end of the year, I'll be satisfied. So will the team. Papi was looking like a more automatic out than Jason Varitek circa 2008 earlier.

I'm going to go with .256/24/99.

His father was sick, it weighed heavily on him. He got better and Papi got better. There really isn't much more to it than that. He's a complete hitter, it's hard to just lose that ability over night.

It really hasnt been overnight. He has struggled over his last 162 games, hitting at about .235. He has struggled for a long time now. Now, there are excuses for it all, last half of last year he was hurt, his father was sick, and a mirad of other excuses, however, in the end, the numbers are what counts. He would need to hit .305 the rest of the way to get to .256. I just dont see that as realistic. Again, maybe I am just being conservative with the numbers, but I agree with Jon1498, about .250 the rest of the way is not only what I think, but I think would be great for the Sox.

I have to admit, I was one of those fans that had totally written him off. Obviously, his #s are still not very good, I do like the way he is swinging the bat. So... I think .244 is right about on the money, but I think his power #s will increase - He will finish with 26 HR's and 95 RBI's.

Eric, I understand it hasn't been an overnight change. I think before though, he was in the process of still turning it around from a disastrous 2 months. Now, I would say that he has actually found his stride, or at least his power stroke is much more consistent.

The beginning was so bad that a few homeruns wasn't going to right the ship or reassure Red Sox nation. But, after about a month of solid, steady numbers I am saying he is actually hitting his stride offensively. Sorry for any confusion regarding my original statement, I should've clarified more.

Let's hear some other fans' predicitons! Are there any Papi pessimists who would like to voice their opinions???

I think moving into the 4 hole, maybe permanently, will help his production. Pedroia will have a much better second half (.370 OBP or better) so that'll be many more RBI opportunities.

I see power production similar to this month (maybe 6-7 HR a month) and a batting average nearly as high as June's .290. If he goes .275 the rest of the way with 17 homers between now and september, his final 2009 numbers will look like this:

.253/28/95

2nd half, PAP will hit 18 HR and BAT. Avg. 320

Eric - I agree we should ignore his numbers from earlier in the season. But you seem satisfied with the .291 average since July 1st.

Really? From a DH?

Watching him in batting practice is spectacular. He still has it:

255 30 HR 103 RBI's

That is not enough from a DH. The DH's only contribution is hitting those stats don't compute for a DH.

If you compare those stats to other DHs around the league, he'd still be among or at least in the same area as some of the best, even with that 2 month offensive hiatus. If he finishes with 25-30 and close to 90 RBIs. That would be a huge contribution.

Those numbers sound pretty good. I think anyone would be hard pressed to complain if Papi managed to finish with .240-.260/20-25 HRs/and80-90 RBIS, that's very much in JD Drew career territory and they pay 14 million per for that. The good news is is Ortiz keeps hitting like this you can reasonably expect the same for the next few years. That's a far cry from him being totally shot and being on the hook for those $s. While those numbers probably aren't worth his salary, and probably a little under what you'd want from a DH on a top team (although fine in terms of league average) it's probably enough for it not to hurt the team in a major way, especially if there are enough Lowell/Bay's in the lineup with him. Decreased production though might mean it's even more important to perhaps overpay a little for Bay to keep him here and either have a healthy Lowell or pay for a quality replacement. I'd hate to see the lineup long term without either or both of them or big hitting new players to take their place. Once again those comparing Ortiz to other DHs need to take a look at the actual stats.

What strikes me is how the team has been very consistent. They haven't yet put together a classic Red Sox rip-em-up 10-15 games where everyone hits. All through the year there have been slumping players. In April Youk, Lowell and Bay carried the team. Recently, though Youk and Bay have been weaker than expected. My point is that when the Red Sox go on one of those streaks, Papi's rbis will come in a bunch. I expect him to finish at .240/24/90 which power wise is not bad for four months.

If he hit 8 HRs a month and hit 270+, with the rest of the lineup, he'll hit around 250, with 30ish HRs and around 100 rbi. Bad for his "norm," but fine for the league.

From August of last year after manny left and "he didnt have anyone behind him," through the horror of this year, and to this point of the season here are his totals:
AB 464
R 69
H 111
2B 36
3B 2
HR 20
RBI 86
BB 73
HBP 3
SO 104
AVG. 239
OBP. 343
SLG. 578
OPS. 922

Hardly seems like someone washed up, especially with the horrible end to last season and start of this one.

I can see Papi reaching 35 hrs 96 rbi an a 290 av

Would be great if Ortiz hit .290 by years end but to do so he would have to hit like Ted Williams at roughly a .360 clip. After striking out 3 times tonight, I'm afraid it isn't going to happen. I agree with most predictions though on between 25-30 HR and RBI in the 90 range, maybe even slightly more than 100 if lucky. Don't see him breaking .240 avg.

I have a feeling he will get 30 HR's

I vote for neither of these. He can (and will) do better. I'm thinking .263 avg with 30 hrs and 97 rbi

He's still hitting at a low percentage and I'm not sold on this current hot period being anything but either an anomaly or a cycle of something he's taken. I would imagine the sox front office is wishing that he'd still be in the horrible start he was in so that they could just pull him. Right now he's pulled the wool over the eyes of the fans and it would be a PR hit to get a bat to replace him in the lineup. At some point he will probably just go back to what he was doing in april and may.

FWIW, Craig, PEDs don't kick in overnight. Unless Papi has something in his eyedrops, there's no indication that his resurgence is anything more than Papi getting his groove back.

It is sweet that so many are still looking at Big Papi through rose colored glasses of days gone by, but the Big Guy is toast. Yeah, he had a good June, but he is right back in his funk, hitting .214 in July. He is killing the Sox in the middle of the line-up. The fact is that were he anyone but Papi he would have been dropped to the bottom of the order two months ago. Actually he would be out of the lineup altogether. If he finishes the season, I expect his numbers to be be .222 avg and 20 homers. However I expect the Sox to go find a bat before the trade deadline. You can't have a DH who goes 0 fer every other day.

I'm with starna and teytey. I think Papi finishes at .265/31/102

.262 27 91

David will bat .246 Hr 29 RBI 97

.225, with 15-20 HR's, in keeping with a career in decline. His numbers will be off last year's, and assuming he completes his contract, lower still next year. He is still cheating on the fastball, and while it's working for him right now, pitchers will exploit it in the second half.

I don't care what his stats are so long as we are WS Champs again!

You got that right.

Before, when he was in the slump, everyone said, "oh, he can't catch up with the fastball, his wrists are slow, he's just guessing at the plate...etc."

Now, he's "cheating on the fastball." Give me a break, Snitch. You're a perfect example of the pessimistic Sox fan who, rather than credit a guy who has climbed out of a deep slump, you try and nit-pick to find some reason to justify more negative criticism.

NICE!

.239 and 25HRs, and 95 RBIs

he'll be 309 average 32homers and 109RBI's

278 and 34 hr with 106 rbi's

Ohhhhh!!!! Big Papi goes deep. Just like I predicted. Big Papi just said "Slump that, SoxFan1388!!!!"

1/2 against a the Royals pitching staff doesn't exactly qualify as out of a slump. I would love your optimisim.

But...I will say...great call on the home run.

Did that guy really call the homerun before the game was played? I gotta think his prediction abilities are a little more skillful than soxfans. Big papi for MVP! He's on a tear.

.271 28 Hr 92 RBI

If he stays healthy!!!! 260 25 homers 101 rbi's and if he's close to that, his 3rd Ring. I think we need to worry about Mike Lowell more than Papi because we do not win without Mike or another bat. Liking the talk about Victor Martinez

David Ortiz's stats for the last 7 games, all in July, all occurring during this supposed "slump."

.240 4HRs 10RBIs

To suggest that is cause for concern is absolutely and entirely ridiculous. He is gonna have a monster second half. Can't wait to watch it, and utter that sweet reassuring phrase of "I told you so" to all of you pessimistic, worry warts. Mountians out of mole hills, that is what this is amounting to.

In a half a month when a player is batting .200, only 30 days since he was batting about .188 with no power or add to the team, to consider that as no cause for concern is rediculous? Do you actualy listen to what you are talking about. Also, are you trying to say that .240 is great? The home runs are there, but to think that .200 for almost a half a month has no merit for concern, well thats just stupid. Whether it ends up being big concern is one thing. However, 1-5 with 3ks is not exactly proving your point. Nor is the 2-11 he is in right now. Nor is his total of .222 average right now. To think that this is no cause for concern is blindly arguing for someone. His season, at this point, has been a failure. He has started to put it back for a little bit. But any true fan will understand, he can get back into a funk.

Please be advised, ususing a glitch in our current system, user SoxCeltsPatsAndBs has entered in over 20 votes for himself. Please be advised that we are working to fix the problem, and making a slugfest a more fair competition.

HA HA HA HA, BUSTED!!!!!!!

Ha... Are you serious, SoxFan? Wow. I never thought I would see someone so desparate and go through as much trouble try and win a debate on here. What a pathetic tactic to try and swing some final hour votes on your favor... Check this out.

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about, all SoxCeltsPatsAndBs victories should be changed to losses. How pathetic you need this to feel better about yourself.

Please be advised. SoxFan1388 has been accused of imitating the group governing this debate site. If he were truly clever enough to pull this off he would have at least done himself a favor and performed a quick spell check. The "SlugfestAdministration" would not be as stupid to misspell a simple word such as "using." Please disregard our last entry as the information is completely inaccurate, as SoxFan1388 is actually the culprit guilty of this infraction and attempting to take advantage of these so-called "glitches."

And as I was pointing this out to other Slugesters, the score somehow miraculously went from 142-139 in favor of my argument, to 149-142 in favor of SoxFan1388... Incredible.

It was good to hear everyone's opinions on Papi and see your passion and enthusiasm towards his future second half success. That is what makes these so much fun. Thanks to all those who did cast a vote for me. I'm sure they'll be plenty more as the season rolls on. Good way to end the first half, Beckett. Let's Go Sox!

Hey, man that wasn't me. I have no doubt that we are both getting close to equal votes. It has been close all the way through. I have 1 name, Soxfan1388 and that is it. Whoever is making that accusation it is not me. I really don't care if I win or lose. I just think its fun. Someone that probably lost to you earlier is trying to get revenge I guess or something. But it was not me. Nor do I believe you are "cheating". Again, like I said earlier, good luck and may the best man win. Also, lets not throw around completely false accusations. Thanks.

I have only started a few weeks ago, but I would like to think that I am not viewed as a cheater. I like to come on here and argue, its fun, the same thing we all want to do. But I like to think we are fighting fair, as well as I hope you think when you see my name accept a slugfest. Its unfortunate that some people want to hurt someones reputation. But I will completely say that I think all your votes are deserved as well as are mine. I really don't appreciate you accusing me of falsifying a name as well as cheating on this.

No worries, man. I love this forum too. I think it's a great way to voice your opinions and have everyone chime in in Red Sox nation. Whoever it was I guess just takes thing way too seriously. This was one my favorite topics, and I definitely enjoyed the back and forth banter. Maybe we can do another in the future, free of these stupid shannanigans. The important thing to keep in my mind is we are all fans of the same teams even if we do have differing throughts. I Wish you all the best, SoxFan!

My apologies for jumping to conclusions as well. But, I also do not appreciate being falsely accused, which I see understand. I'll definitely accept a Slugfest you propose in the future without any hesitation. I hope you feel the same. Good lookin' out.

I have a feeling it was that "tridecaphi" character. I had another close Slugfest with him a few days ago and I guess he feels slighted or miffed by the loss... Considering his swift comment of "BUSTED" shortly thereafter the entry. Oh well... I guess we all can't get along.

I can certainly understand that. I think it would be better if they don't allow comments if you are not signed in to a screen name. There is alot of questionable comments going around from people with names such as 123 or other random assortments of characters (not saying 123 as a specific instance, just picking something out of my head). When we started this I had no clue it would get to almost 300+ votes and make the front page of the website. Kinda cool I think.

And to clarify further, I actually think this slugfest has been exceptional with comments, obviously minus the latest incident. Even though some fairly unrealistic ideas from a few, they are all civil and thought out, and most importantly, supportive of the Sox.

I absolutely did not post anything as "slugfestadministrator," I never would have thought of that. I still believe it to be true, because you absolutely did(and do) cheat to win.

Tridecaphi...do you have any proof of this? How did he cheat? How can you cheat? Maybe I am computer iliterate, but how can you cheat on this? Its 1 vote one name?

I am asking these questions because I do not see merit in the accusations.

I was winning by 2 votes with less than 2 minutes remaining, out of no where SoxCeltsPatsAndBs gets 4 votes inside the last two minutes to win. Even another guy(Jon1498) said that his argument was, "Weak at best." Here's the page, read for yourself:
http://bcom.trufan.com/slugfest/show/1457

As to how? I believe this site governs itself on "cookies" or something like that. They are placed on your computer once you vote, thus, your browser knows if you have voted and only allows it to do so once. However, the problem with that is that browsers can very easily erase all cookies. So, if someone was so inclined to waste the time go through the process required to vote multiple times, they could. You would have to go into the browser and erase all cookies, then refresh the screen, and that would allow them to vote again. They could do this as many times as they wanted. It probably takes about a minute to do, maybe a touch longer.

I was watching my sluggfest with SoxCelts... and I would just sit there and refresh the page and I'd see it slowly go up, about 1 vote per minute, until he was 3-4 ahead of me, happened several times during the slugfest. I called him out on it in the middle of the slugfest the second or third time I noticed it.

What this site *SHOULD* do is use the IP address of the voter, and record the IP address along with the vote. You could attempt to vote as often as you wanted, but only one would ever count. That is the only true way to be fair.

Funny how you know all of this information, tridecaphi, considering you are the only one who has ever brought any of this up. You seem to be pretty familiar with the process.

Let me just show you a comment from the debate he is referencing from the username "LCP":
The debate was simply Halladay to Sox??? --- Will it happen? Who knows? But the answer is YES it could happen.

Then SoxCelts... is challenged to come up with intraleague trades involving top players and he does. Then he's challenged to come up with trades within the division, and he has, as well as others have. What more does he need to do?

The parameters of the debate are constantly changing and SoxCelts..., I believe, has answered every challenge with all due respect to the challenger.

I don't want to be a jinx but my congrats to SoxCelts... for hanging in there once again and remaining on topic while addressing frivolous challenges.

But it seems like you are the kind of person who would try and use selective, circumstancial evidence to try and prove an ubstantiated accusation. Good luck, SoxFan1388. Looks like you're gonna pull this one out. Let's do another one soon!

While I hope this is not the case, I am hesitant to believe it. If it is the case, it is very sad. Anyway to make it more fair would be a great thing, IMHO. However, especially in slugfests, its not always the best argument that wins. While I have noticed that SoxCeltsPatsAndBs wins, and not always with what I believe to be the best argument, he does usually go with the Red Sox or whoever is in debate (pro Boston), and that will tend to gather votes. Again, I am very hesitant to start accusing people of cheating, so I will not do that here. But if it is possible to cheat, I do hope Trufan.com looks into it.

Also I will point out, just because I, or you, don't believe it to be the best argument, doesn't mean others don't believe it is. Boston.com is highly traveled, and its possible that one a minute would vote. I don't know either way. I guess I'll quote myself and "thats the way to keep the faith!"

Wow, how genuine, he doesn't cheat in an attempt to "prove" his other bogus victories were genuinely earned.

SoxFan, you made a good point, TrueFan SHOULD look into it. I'm sending them an email detailing what I think they should do to fix the issue to remove the possibility of such cheating and to make this a more fair and honest environment.

And for SoxCelts, I'm a computer programmer, I'm not a dummy, which is why I instantly knew what it was you were/have been doing. Consider yourself reported, and I highly doubt you will be as successful in your future slugfests as you have been in the past (13-0-1) prior to this. My guess is TrueFan will correct their issue to protect the integrity of the slugfest.

BIG PAPI IS A FRAUD! HE WAS A BUM BEFORE BOSTON AND SINCE HE`S NOT JUICED UP TURNING BACK TO THE BUM HE ONCE WAS. TIC TOC THE CLOCK STRUCK 12 AND BIG PAPI UR A BUM AGAIN! BOSTON FANS GET USE TO IT. IT`S ALL DOWN HILL FROM HERE!

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Past numbers are irrelevant. The only relevant numbers now will be his RBIs during the stretch run. Even his average will be unimportant except for his status next year.

Hey Soxfan. How does it feel to have unfounded aand unfair accusations lebeled against you?